Inside Modular: The Podcast of Commercial Modular Construction
Inside Modular is the official podcast of the Modular Building Institute, the Voice of Commercial Modular Construction. This series will highlight industry news and trends, include conversations with industry thought-leaders, and discuss the advantages of modular building construction.
Inside Modular: The Podcast of Commercial Modular Construction
Benefits, Tips, and Tricks for Designing & Building with Cold-Formed Steel w/ FRAMECAD
Andreas Kilander, offsite and modular manager at FRAMECAD, delves into the transformative role of cold-formed steel (CFS) in modular construction, discussing FRAMECAD's design-to-manufacture process and efficiency advantages, as well as the latest CFS building trends. In addition, Andreas highlights both the opportunities and challenges builders face when adopting this technology and shares insights about the future of CFS in modular construction.
Hello and welcome to Inside Modular, the podcast of commercial modular construction brought to you by the Modular Building Institute. Welcome everyone. My name is John McMullen. I'm the Marketing Director here at MBI. Today I'm joined by Andreas Kalander, Offsite and Modular Manager at FrameCAD. Andreas is here to talk about the ins and outs of designing and building with cold form steel, as well as how building designers can maximize its potential. Andreas, welcome. Thanks, John.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me on the podcast. It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1:It's a pleasure to have you. Thank you. Tell me about yourself, andreas, what's your background and what brought you to FrameCat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'll try to keep it a bit brief. So I'm originally from Sweden in Europe and moved to Australia about 12 years ago. So my background is in manufacturing, mainly mechanical design and product development, and that's also what brought me to Sydney here in Australia, and that was to design a special purpose packaging machine for a local company. Anyway, we liked it. So we stayed here in Australia, me and my family, and I think it was around 2015. Well, I was working in my own business as a mechanical design contractor. I was approached by people involved with one large builder here in Sydney who was then looking to launch a modular construction business. So they asked me to design the concept and I then became their design manager and it was modular bathrooms or bathroom pots.
Speaker 2:So that's a little bit where my modular construction journey began, manager, and it was modular bathrooms or bathroom pods. So that's a little bit where my modular construction journey began. I later joined a company here in Australia called Interpod, which is one of the largest modular bathroom manufacturers, and again, this was as a design manager. So both of these companies on both of these companies, I was a client and a user of the FrameCAD technology, so I knew them quite well. Then, in 2021, so during the height of COVID-19, I joined FrameCat to help the appliance set up for cold form steel manufacturing, and so that's how I landed where I am today.
Speaker 1:Very good. Covid aside, it sounds like a very serendipitous journey that you've had thus far. But for those who aren't familiar with FrameCat, how would you describe the company and its role in the larger modular construction industry?
Speaker 2:So at FrameCat, we are specialized in technology solutions for design and manufacturing of core form steams. Also I may have a slip up or two here we call this light gauge steel or LGS. We're going to try to use CFS or core form steel, and so we're not a frame manufacturer. We are the supplier of the technology for the frame manufacturers, and what sets us apart is our end-to-end approach, so we would provide the complete system. So that includes software for design and engineering, of course, the role forming equipment and and also all the other components like for a building system, so brackets and guides for how it's put together.
Speaker 2:I know it's not really that simple, but sometimes when I do speak to people who's not in the industry, I actually used to say that yeah, think of a system which is a 3D printer of building steel structures. It would surprise how many of our clients actually use that term. Oh, we're going to print this frame, we're going to print this truss, so it's a way of making it a little bit easier to understand. So it's a way of making it a little bit easier to understand. And, of course, many of our clients are in modular construction, but our technology is used in a wide range of sectors, including residential, commercial and industrial construction, and today we have a bit over 1,000 systems in 120 countries that are using our technology to produce wall frames, clusters, floor joists and also modular bases.
Speaker 1:Well, I love that analogy. I'm sure it's infinitely more complicated, but the 3D printer analogy is great. I wish I had stumbled upon that when I was preparing for this podcast.
Speaker 2:It would have made my life a lot easier.
Speaker 1:But no, that's awesome. According to your website, FrameCAD has been around for 35 years.
Speaker 2:Tell me about how FrameCAD has evolved in that time. What are you capable of now that you weren't before? Framecad is a New Zealand-based based company and we began in 1987. So that is what's that 38 years, I think. So we might have to update the homepage there.
Speaker 2:And initially we were delivering building system to Pacific Islands, due to the close distance to islands in the Pacific Ocean, and at the time we focused on delivering mainly material, even if there was machines involved not really designed by us, and we delivered material to produce purlins and cladding systems, which was a part of our building system. And then these evolved. So in the 1990s we began to specify our own machinery, but we're still relying on external manufacturers and we also recognized the growing need of software integration. So because, yeah, you have a machine, but how do you get things out of it? So we launched our software development and developed design software in the 1990s, and then the next milestone would be around 2005, where we actually brought all this in-house. So we started to design and build our own machines entirely in Auckland, new Zealand, in our factory and office.
Speaker 2:And that's something we do until today. We keep doing it, and then in recent years we've focused heavily on advancing the building system. So our software has grown a little bit, has grown from being just a design and engineering tool into more of a comprehensive manufacturing suite.
Speaker 1:I'm interested and we mentioned this a few minutes ago with the analogy that you gave but I'm interested in how the frame CAD system works. Beyond the analogy of the 3D printer, can you explain the process that your clients go through, starting with their designs and ending with CFS frames? Is it similar or different than other CAD or BIM programs out there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so at Franca, we referred to the whole process as design, manufacture, build. So if we start with the design step, I mean this goes beyond just creating design. It does include engineering, evaluation of the design and optimization. Of course, you want the building to be strong enough, but you also don't want to use more material than necessary, so the optimization is quite important, and so our clients process vary quite a lot from client to client. Some do all their work in our software, so everything until this manufacturer is done inside of our software, while others myself included when I was a client we integrate with other external platforms, so things like BIM or CAD system, like SOLIDWORKS, for example. So then we have plugins to talk to these things, and regardless of that workflow, in the end, though, it all goes through our software, which then generates the CNC code for the machine, so there is actually no manual programming of these. This is all taken care of by our software. So if you design a frame, you don do any programming, that's, that's done by the system, and then it would generate drawings as well, and we we tend to have a very paperless process, but there's still some, like authorities or engineers, who wants at least a pdf of the drawings and there's also a digital assembly instruction that is sent to the roll forming equipment for manufacturing. And then you have the next stage there, which would be the manufacturing stage, and here of course, our roll forming machines comes into play.
Speaker 2:So we do have multiple type of machines and it depends on what you intend to build, what type of machine you use. So larger profiles or thicker gauge is normally a larger machine, for example for modular, it's very common with the smaller ones, I would say. So a typical rule for modular construction is it's quite small. So they only take up around 25 by 6 meter of space and that includes the decoiler. So they're pretty small to put in the corner of your manufacturing space. And that process is quite simple the manufacturing part. You load the steel coil into the decoiler and you select the project, you want to run the file and you're ready to go.
Speaker 2:So then the machine would manufacture those members and all tooling is already done, so for penetrations, for service hole and so on. And every screw connection is dimpled, which means it creates a hole for the screw, but it also creates, like a dent, a pan or a cavity what do you want to call it so and that has two purposes. First is that the screw head will be recessed into the frame, so which allow for a flat surface when you install plaster and so on. But it also allows you to click the frames together actually before you. You screw them off and, as I mentioned earlier, the on-screen assembly instructions will be displayed on the machine so you can see exactly what member goes where.
Speaker 2:And then the build stage. This is again different from different clients, so those who are not modular. You build a volumetric module in the factory that would stack and strap the stack of panels and then that will be sent to site, while modular manufacturers normally would use trolleys if they have a static build, so for bigger buildings that doesn't move with batches of panels, that goes to each station. And then, if you have a pallet system where you do smaller modules, we found that most of them use the framing station for both manufacturing and stand or erect the frames at the framing station so it flows in, probably the starting point normally of your modular factory, so they erect modules as they come off the machine. So it's a very streamlined process and it's precision and efficient in every step, from design to final assembly.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm sure this was the intent, but it sounds outstandingly user-friendly. What are the benefits of cold-formed steel and what kind of structures is CFS best for?
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course there's a lot of benefits. I can mention a few. But so efficiency, as the manufacturing process is very streamlined, it makes it very fast to go from design to finished frames, if you call or if you compare to alternatives. And then of course it depends on what you compare with. But if we compare with with timber or wood, as you would say in the us, is the durability, so it's a, it's resistant to fire, pest and extreme weather, so mold and twisting and so on, the accuracy, and so the automated process. I don't want to say eliminate total, but it reduced the human errors. It's very hard to actually assemble a frame the wrong way once it's designed correctly.
Speaker 2:Another big one is waste. So if we compare to either lengths of wood or lengths of structural steel or red steel, we have, I mean, a steel coil is probably what is that in feet? Around 3,000 feet, and we don't have any waste in between the members, so you can where one start, the other stops for 3000 feet. So the only waste you get is really when you're in the end of a call. There might be a bit left that doesn't fit into a member. The waste we do get would be from tool punches. So when we punch for service, all the things, but it's very little waste. If you compare that to to other methods, I think you can definitely say that core form steel is is reducing your waste quite a lot and strength to weight ratio it's very light and that's of course in particular with modular, if you compare to traditional materials like concrete and timber and weather structures makes it easier to lift, to transport and handle on site, which sometimes also lead to that you can have fewer other structural elements because the weight of the core form steel is is light. And storage is another benefit. You you can store about five to eight steel coils on top of each other on the flat and the five coils would fit in 10 to 15 square feet and that's actually 15,000 linear feet of profile. So compare that to when you would have lengths of timber or red steel. It's very compact and as a modular manufacturer I like the control of supply chain, so you get frames when you need them on demand.
Speaker 2:And then you asked what structures is best for. So where it's called foam, steel is the main structure. Of course low rise buildings are very good, but mid rise buildings I would say there's a limit around eight, eight levels. Even with eight levels you might have a podium or, uh, some other, but we see fully like actually, buildings that are seven story, that goes up, so it's. It's generally not used traditionally in high rise buildings. Um, besides, if you do a hybrid construction with other, like you integrate the co-form steel with structure steel or concrete, then you can yeah, you can go as high as you build pretty much. I even think there was light cash deal in this Burj Khalifa in Dubai, but it's not the structural part of the building.
Speaker 1:Well, you predicted a little bit of my next question. But taking the height into consideration, if we were to say you know eight stories and below, are you of the opinion that wood or welded steel structures offer greater benefits for certain types of projects? You know again, within that height limit, or should we be using coal-formed steel all over the place, for for every project?
Speaker 2:no, what we? We think that cold form steel offers advantages in, in over welded structures and timber and, of course, in in in most things, of course there are uh.
Speaker 2:There are situations where we're both uh, wood and and well structures have an edge over, like HD or cold form steel. I'm not sure I can give you like a project example, but me myself, for example, I even use timber to a degree in my bathroom pots. So when, for example, want to install a grab rod which was tested for high load, I felt comfortable about having a piece of wood inside of the steel frames to screw onto. And regarding welded structure, this is and has been the most common solution for modular bases. So we do have we see now a lot of projects using cold form steel for many projects, but there's no doubt there still are plenty of modular projects out there that really benefit from welded structures. I think you can see this way. If you, if you can use cold-formed steel, I would, as there are some substantial savings to be made on the cost, but I still think the welded structures will still be the main one going forward.
Speaker 1:Well, you've been with FrameCat, as you mentioned, for several years. What kind of trends have you seen in the industry when it comes to cold-formed steel-based buildings? How have those trends affected the capabilities of FrameCat's software and its machines?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean a trend that we obviously are very happy with is that we actually see more and more companies that are moving into cold-formed steel for modular and assemble them manually, that we get more and more that actually gets their own equipment, because you can get the frames on demand with all tooling done. Another trend that I touched on a little bit in your earlier question is that we see more modules that are being fully built out of cold-formed steel. So while earlier it was mostly hybrid bases with weather structures or concrete, we see a little bit more of like a steel or, sorry, core foam steel basis. Another trend, when it comes to both modular and prefab, is that we see a bit of vertical integration. Prefab is that we see a bit of vertical integration, so developers and builders actually set up their own manufacturing just for their own needs. So while they don't market in these states, they have their own factory to produce their own modules or their own panels.
Speaker 2:And of course, this uptake has led to us doing things that are modular unique. So we do have tools today that has been requested from modular clients that are unique for modular buildings, so like punch tools that makes it easier to run plumbing around corners and so on. That makes it easier to run plumbing around corners and so on. And from a software point of view, even myself I actually got FrameKit to develop a plugin to SOLIDWORKS because we fully designed everything inside of SOLIDWORKS and I didn't want to have like I wanted one truth, one place for all the design so we can export the design straight out of SOLIDWORKS straight into the FrameCat software. We just do the machine code for us. So it's been capabilities added just due to modular construction.
Speaker 1:Well, that's very cool. It sounds like FrameCat is responsive to its customers' needs and what they're looking for. I was going to ask as a software and machine supplier are there other common questions that clients ask you or challenges that they seem to be facing? If so, what are they and how are they resolved?
Speaker 2:Yes, there's plenty of challenges. In particular, when you're setting up a new operation, you will discover a lot of things that you need to learn how to handle. So I think the wallet design and manufacturing process are very well developed, as it's quite old and it's been used for a long time. Over the years we have learned that core form steel manufacturing or operation is much larger than this. So many clients have had to develop their own methods to handle this, most likely by using third-party software, sometimes multiple, to integrate and try to integrate it. It's not always successful and that's for things like scheduling of your manufacturing and resource management.
Speaker 2:We also see quality and compliance is becoming more and more important part, because you need traceability of material. An example of these in the US we have ICC that a lot of clients now comply with. You've got inventory of material, project management yeah, status tracking, delivery. There's a lot of things that comes into play. Then you say what we have done to help them. So that's the reason we, over the last couple of years, have developed a product management software called Pranked Nexa, which we quite recently announced. So it's a few months old and to my knowledge, this is the only product management platform that is just tailored for cold form steel industry. So, in short, what these do is takes care of all those things that I mentioned earlier and gives you control and visibility of your projects. So from the design, which we already handled well, to the installation on site. So there's much more than the actual design and manufacturing.
Speaker 1:For those who are working with CFS now and for those who are considering it, what are some best practices you've found relating to its handling and use? What should builders know that they may not know now?
Speaker 2:So, in regards to handling, in general, core film steel can be handled manually as it's low weight, but I would still avoid making walls and panels that are too long. So at least for onsite uh building, um, it's just a few clicks in the design software. So you, I would, I would try to help my, my uh assembly crew on site by not doing too heavy and big elements, if I can uh. It also makes the shipping a lot easier and, on the contrary, if you are in, are in modular construction and you, if you have access to lifting gear, I would do the opposite. I will make the walls as long as possible so I eliminate joints because that will speed up my assembly process. So the size of the element is is important for for the handling and also it may not be a big thing for smaller buildings, but in bigger buildings I would also use the zoning function in our software so I can ensure that every panel is manufactured and stacked in order that they are needed for the install. So I would plan my installation sequence because I know that would save time on site. It's a lot easier to do in the software than to have to work that out on site and what builders should know that they may not.
Speaker 2:While we like that, we have high precision and that is exact design For new builders. This is sometimes they used to be able to play around on site. If they have a concrete base that is uneven or not properly done With cold foam steel, you require a bit more more. You need to do it right from the beginning, so to draw it up and really check the, the concrete base. So it's, it's good.
Speaker 1:Um, it's an advice I can give because it will be the way it's designed you mentioned earlier some trends with the use of cold formed steel, how things are on an uptick. What do do you foresee happening in the CFS-based modular construction market over the next few years?
Speaker 2:We already see a big push for ADUs.
Speaker 2:They call it a bit different in Europe, australia and in the US, but we see that has grown a lot both in the US and in Canada the United States and Canada so I think we will see a continuous growth of the ADUs and I think this is linked to the housing shortage that a lot of countries are experiencing at the moment, and this may be one of the solutions of course, not the only one but it will ease the pressure a little bit.
Speaker 2:Also, affordable buildings is linked to the same issue. It's a bit of a buzzword at the moment, but it has gained a lot of attention, and governments and everyone is really talking about affordable housing and I really believe that modular is going to play a big part of this, and I also think coal from steel will be an important factor as well, because it's's very fast process and low cost compared to alternatives. I see another sector that is is growing. I found that our older clients um get more and more into this and that is internally fit out on drivers, so more of that is now done as as prefabricated elements than just do it on site, and I think what drives these a little bit is that building authorities has started to become a bit firmer on receiving accurate as built drawings with BIM and things in place, and also it requires material traceability, and, as this is something you get our system comply with without any effort, really I think that's what makes them successful in this area.
Speaker 1:Well, Andreas, this has been great. I really appreciate your time. Before I let you go, I see that FrameCAD is going to be exhibiting at MBI's upcoming World of Modular event in Las Vegas in April. What do you look forward to most about that event?
Speaker 2:Yes, we are. We're going to exhibit it. It's actually in my job. That's a highlight of the year, I'd say. We did exhibit last year as well in Orlando, and I also went to the World of Modular in Brussels, and I found both those events to be to be great. What I'm looking forward to?
Speaker 2:Last year we met many clients on this event, much more than I actually anticipated, and so I really look forward again to go there and speak with them. You get to see a lot of people within a short time, which is which is good. I also hope to have enough time to go and see as many breakout sessions as possible. I particularly like those where speakers share the lessons learned from earlier projects. I found them very, very interesting and valuable. If I can apply that to my own projects, I may not have to commit the same mistakes or I will learn. So I hope to be able to see a few of these, and I would, of course, also like to take the opportunity to invite anyone to read out to me in the conference if they want to talk about Coreform, Steel and Modular.
Speaker 1:Andreas, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time today and I look forward to seeing you in April in Las Vegas.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:My name is John McMullen and this has been another episode of Inside Modular, the podcast for commercial modular construction. Until next time.